In an industry filled with introverted extroverts who, admittedly, would rather talk to themselves in a padded room than introduce themselves to new people, networking can be intimidating. But, to make the most of the CRS 2023 experience, networking is key. To aid in breaking down walls, and to give everyone new
Amazon Music
Principal Music Curator
CRS Agenda Committee –Digital Music Summit
• Cookies
• Real Housewives ... of any city
• Heist movies
• Dogs
Stacy Blythe
Big Loud SVP/Promotion
• The Pittsburgh Steelers
• 19 80s Randy Travis bangers
• Stepbrothers, the movie
• Surviving life with a six-year-old tiny clone of yourself
Beverlee Brannigan
Beverlee Brannigan LLC Pres.
CRB Board Secretary
• OrangeTheory Fitness
• Homemade bagels
• Spanish on the Duolingo app
• Cooking
• Black licorice
Becky Brenner
Albright & O’Malley & Brenner
Consulting Partner
CRB Board Member
• I’m addicted to movies: Star Trek Star Wars, Lethal Weapon, Die Hard, Jurassic Park and every romcom ever made.
• Does being in a Miss Teen America pageant change your life?
• Golf
• How great Seattle is to visit and what guest rooms I have available.
• Raising kids – what to do and what not to do.
Zena Burns
Futuri SVP/Content & Special Projects
CRS Agenda Committee C oming To America Prince
topics to discuss while waiting in line at buffets, Country Aircheck polled the CRB Board, CRS Agenda Committee, CRS scholarship winners and other industry leaders to find out what topics are most likely to get them chatting. And, no, which music scheduling software the station uses and when an artist’s push week is are not included.
RJ Curtis CRB Exec. Dir.
Cycling
U.S. Presidents Root beer Black licorice
The Ohio State University Buckeyes football My mother, the ex-nun The time Paul McCartney made up a song about my lips
Michael Chase
Warner/WAR Dir./ National Radio Promotion
CRS Agenda Committee I hate condiments.
I’m a Buc-ees fanboy New pickleballer Golf Lover of weird music
Johnny Chiang
Pandora Sr. Dir./ Country Programming
CRB Board Member ormula 1 Dogs Coffee eith Urban Star Wars
George Couri
Triple 8 Owner
CRB Board Member he first five years of Elton John’s career aac Asimov
Ask me if I’ve ever eaten a P ell me something I don’t know about stoicism. Challenge me to pong ... and make sure you t some trash when you do.
Get Smar t is the funniest show in the history of television.
Liz DelGrosso
KCLR/Columbia, MO morning host
Lisa McKay Scholarship Winner
Dogs; I own two Corgis. Running and working out I’m a brand-new mom of a sevenmonth-old.
Reality television
Beville Dunkerley
Pandora Head/Country Music
CRS Agenda Committee –Digital Music Summit
Rusty Walker Scholarship Winner
Being a go-getter: what’s stopping
All things pop culture he science of radio
on-air talent
CRS Agenda Committee
• Nobody knows more about skinny jeans than I do.
• Two-time owner of the Green Bay Packers
• Two-time Office trivia champion
• I’ve never met a pickle I didn’t enjoy eating.
Broken Bow Records
VP/Promotion
CRS Agenda Committee
• I’m a wino!
• I love dancing and can teach you the toilet paper dance.
• Total animal lover ... my two cats are my children.
• Fleetwood Mac
• I’m a crime drama freak!
iHeartMedia/Nashville SVPP, iHeartCountry Brand Coord.
CRB Board Member
• Jesus
• Vols
• Golf
• John Piper books
• Chocolate gravy
A win. Something you accomplished this year that does not have to be work related.
Brent Michaels
KUZZ/Bakersfield PD/on-air talent
CRS Agenda Committee Vice Chair & CRB Board Member
• The proper order in which to watch Kaleidoscope
• OrangeTheory
• The San Francisco 49ers
Nicole Michalik
WXTU/Philadelphia on-air host
CRS Agenda Committee
• Sports
• Coffee Under The Covers, my Instagram Stories series
• Harry Styles
• Astrology
• Hallmark movies
Tommy Moore
ACM VP/Artist & Industry Relations, Board Administration & Governance
CRS Agenda Committee
• Aquariums
• The Royal Family
• What would you do if you won the lottery?
• Favorite travel locations
• Red Hot Chili Peppers
Ashley Morrison
WFUS/Tampa PD
CRS Agenda Committee
• Manatees
• Non-touristy things to do in Florida
• Being a sucker for any of the latest health and beauty trends ... which probably have no credibility
Rod Phillips
iHeartMedia EVP/Country Programming Strategy
CRB Board Member
• Green Bay Packers
• Best hiking options
• UK basketball
• Anti-aging ... yup!
• Gator’s wardrobe
Joel Raab
Joel Raab Consulting
CRB Board Member
• Barbecue – Nashville’s or anywhere else.
• TV and movie Westerns, old or new
• Cars
• Road trips
• Southern death food
Tim Roberts
Audacy VP/Country Format & WYCD/Detroit PD
CRB Board Member
• Ping pong. I started the Paddle Royale tournament with George Couri, and I’m a pretty good player.
• Cars. I love ‘em, used to race them and previously worked for NASCAR.
• Football. I used to play and coach.
Brittany Schaffer
Spotify/Nashville Head/ Artist & Label Partnerships
CRB Board Member
• My one-year-old son and nearly three-year-old daughter
• Cocomelon and Mickey Mouse Clubhouse
• Peloton bike and tread
• Yellowstone
John Shomby
Country’s Radio Coach
CRB Board VP
• Anything about any Philadelphia sports team
• Dateline, 48 Hours and 20/20
• Unsalted nuts
• Jogging
• The Three Stooges
Elaina Smith
Westwood One syndicated Nights
With Elaina host
• Fear of golf carts
• RuPaul’s Drag Race
• How early Christmas decorations can go up
• Best pizza ever
• Broadway musicals
Nick Steele
KWJJ/Portland morning host
CRS Agenda Committee
• Why has Superman been getting screwed in the DC Universe?
• Movies I’m gonna make my daughter watch when she gets older.
• What the next Star Wars trilogy should be about
• The name of my strip club/breakfast place
• Escape rooms
Brooke Summers
KFGE/Lincoln, NE afternoon host Rusty Walker Scholarship Winner
• True crime
• Friends
• TikTok
Publisher/CEO Lon Helton lon@countryaircheck.com
The Center For Sales Strategy CEO
CRB Board Member
• Growing up in St. Louis
• Mizzou sports
• Cycling
• Jeeps
Jesse Tack
WUBE/Cincinnati afternoon host
CRS Agenda Committee
• I’m an Iowa native.
• Film scores
• CBS Sunday Morning
• I have an identical twin.
WIVK/Knoxville, TN
morning host
CRS Agenda Chair
• My identical twin, Jesse, and I were born 35 minutes apart.
• I love to fish but despise taking the fish off the hook.
• I was raised on a farm but was a terrible farmhand.
• I once recorded and released a hip-hop song under the pseudonym CrackaJack. Seriously. YouTube “Outta My Head.”
Monta Vaden
Country Aircheck
Sr. Radio Editor CRS Agenda Committee
• University of Tennessee Volunteers football, basketball and baseball ... and Peyton Manning
• Friends
• Dateline bae Keith Morrison.
• Elder Millennial pop culture moments and memories
• Horror movies, including but not limited to A Nightmare On Elm Street and Scream
Chuck Aly
Country Aircheck VP/GM
CRB Board Member
• Rum: 10-minute or 45-minute TED Talks available.
• What I ate in Japan: yay or neigh?
• Interning for a 1999 Rock HoF inductee CAC
Manager/Graphics, IT & Administration Kelley Hampton kelley@countryaircheck.com
Coordinator/Design & Production Addie Morton addie@countryaircheck.com
VP/Sales & Marketing April Johnson april@countryaircheck.com
Managing Editor Caitlin DeForest caitlin@countryaircheck.com
Sr. Radio Analyst Chris Huff chris@countryaircheck.com
Sr. Radio Editor Monta Vaden monta@countryaircheck.com
VP/GM Chuck Aly chuck@countryaircheck.com
Art Direction Jerry Holthouse jerry_holthouse@comcast.net
Large Market Station
• KEEY/Minneapolis
• KKBQ/Houston
• KYGO/Denver
• WXTU/Philadelphia
• WYCD/Detroit
Medium Market Station
• KFRG/Riverside
• WIRK/West Palm Beach
• WKDF/Nashville
• WUBE/Cincinnati
• WWKA/Orlando
Small Market Station (tie)
• KZPK/St. Cloud, MN
• WGTY/York, PA
• WKSJ/Mobile, AL
• WQMX/Akron, OH
• WUSY/Chattanooga, TN
• WYCT/Pensacola, FL
Platinum Label
• Big Loud
• Big Machine
• Broken Bow
• MCA
• Stoney Creek
Gold Label
• Arista
• Curb
• EMI Nashville
• Mercury
• Valory
Large Market OM/PD
• Christi Brooks, KCYY/San Antonio
• Travis Moon, KKBQ/Houston
• Tim Roberts, WYCD/Detroit
• Meg Stevens, WUBL/Atlanta
• Gregg Swedberg, KEEY/Minneapolis
Medium Market OM/PD
• Carletta Blake, WGAR/Cleveland
• Casey Carter, WNOE/New Orleans
• Bruce Logan, WIRK/West Palm Beach
• MoJoe Roberts, KWNR/Las Vegas
• Steve Stewart, WWKA/Orlando
Small Market OM/PD
• JD Greene, KZPK/St. Cloud, MN
• Sarah Kay, WQMX/Akron, OH
• Brent Michaels, KUZZ/Bakersfield, CA
• Jon Shannon, WPOR/Portland, ME
• Chelsey Steinhauer, WMAD/Madison, WI
Large Market APD/MD
• Marty Brooks, WIL/St. Louis
• Lois Lewis, KNIX/Phoenix
• Brooks O’Brian, KSON/San Diego
• Dawn Santolucito, WKLB/Boston
• Lauren “Lo” Sessions, KKBQ/Houston
Medium Market APD/MD
• Heather Froglear, KRFG/Riverside
• Billy Kidd, WBEE/Rochester
• Bob Pickett, KVET/Austin
• Tyler Reese, WKDF/Nashville
• Jesse Tack, WUBE/Cincinnati
Small Market APD/MD
• Michelle Buckles, KZSN/Wichita, KS
• Kenn McCloud, KUZZ/Bakersfield, CA
• Charli McKenzie, WNCY/Green Bay, WI
• Melissa “Mo” Wagner, WUSY/Chattanooga, TN
• Sarah Weaver, WKML/Fayetteville, NC
SVP-VP/National Promotion
• Stacy Blythe, Big Loud
• Josh Easler, Records/Nashville
• Shelley Hargis, Broken Bow
• Ali Matkosky, Big Loud
• Erik Powell, Big Machine
Label Streaming Specialist
• Rachel Clogston, Sony
• Benson Curb, Curb
• Brittani Koster, Big Loud
• Chris Loss, BMG/BBRMG
• Annie Ortmeier, UMGN
Director/National Promotion
• David Friedman, UMGN
• Bo Martinovich, Sony
• Lou Ramirez, Warner
• Shari Roth, Warner
• Tyler Waugh, Big Loud
Market Manager/GM
Stephanie Callihan, KKBQ/Houston
JC Campese, WWKA/Orlando
Paul O’Malley, WCKN/Charleston, SC Taylor Walet, KXKT/Omaha
Allison Warren, WKDF & WSM-FM/Nashville
Large Market Personality/Show
• Chris Carr, Kia Becht & McKaila Poppen; Chris Carr & Company; KEEY/Minneapolis
• Danny Dwyer, KUPL/Portland
• Nicole Michalik, WXTU/Philadelphia
• Andy “Riggs” Riggle, Katelyn Maida & Erica Rico; The 93Q Morning Show; KKBQ/Houston
• Angie Ward, WUBL/Atlanta
Medium Market Personality/Show
• “Wayne D” Danielson & Tay Hamilton, WSIX/Nashville
• Heather Froglear, KFRG/Riverside
• Marty McFly, WSM-FM/Nashville
ª Amy Paige, WKDF/Nashville
• Jesse Tack & Anna Marie, Jesse & Anna, WUBE/Cincinnati
Small Market Personality/Show
• Brent Michaels, KUZZ/Bakersfield, CA
• Brook Stephens, KZPK/St. Cloud, MN
• Lewis Stokes, WOGK/Gainesville-Ocala, FL
• Melissa “Mo” Wagner & Greg “StyckMan” Owens, Mo & StyckMan, WUSY/Chattanooga, TN
• Philip Gibbons, WGSQ/Cookeville, TN
National Daily Personality/Show
• Bobby Bones, The Bobby Bones Show, Premiere
• Derek “Big D” Haskins, Sean “Bubba” Powell, Patrick Thomas and Jessica “Carsen” Humphreville; Big D & Bubba; Silverfish Media/Compass
• Charlie Monk, The Mayor Of Music Row, SiriusXM
• Elaina Smith, Nights With Elaina, Westwood One
• Granger Smith, After MidNite With Granger Smith, Premiere
National Weekly Personality/Show
• Whitney Allen, The Big Time, Westwood One
• Kix Brooks, American Country Countdown With Kix Brooks, Westwood One
• “Wayne D” Danielson, iHeartCountry House Party, iHeartMedia
• Lon Helton, Country Countdown USA, Compass
• Tracy Lawrence, Honky Tonkin’ With Tracy Lawrence, Silverfish Media/Compass
National Programmer/Curator
• Johnny Chiang, Pandora
• Charlie Cook, Cumulus
• Jay Cruze, then-iHeartMedia
• Tim Roberts, Audacy
• Bree Wagner, Apple Music Country
Regional Promotion
• John D’Amico, Big Loud
• Katie Bright, Capitol
• Nikki Wood, Big Loud
• Scotty O’Brien, Broken Bow
• Trudie Daniell, EMI Nashville
Independent Promotion Executive
• John Ettinger, 16camino
• Larry Pareigis, Nine North
• Diane Richey, Diane Richey Promotions
• Lisa Smoot, Jerry Duncan Promotion
• Jeff Solima, New Revolution
New Face Of Country Music
• Kristian Barowsky, PickleJar
• Scot “Froggy” Langley, WQIK/Jacksonville
• Andrew “Latty” Latimer, WGKX/Memphis
• Bo Matthews, KBAY/San Jose
• Tucker “Frito” Young & Katy Dempsey, KCYY/San Antonio
Congratulations and Best Wishes to our fearless leader, Mike Dungan, on your journey into retirement. No one deserves it more. You have led us all with integrity, passion, compassion and pure joy. You have been the first one to jump in the trenches and the last one to accept your kudos. We will miss your guidance and booming laugh from our halls on a daily basis, but they will echo throughout our hearts forever.
– Love from your flamethrowers!
My first CRS was at the Opryland Hotel, which was bizarre enough. The plants alone will completely freak you out. You can’t drink and walk around in there. And what I saw was a whole bunch of people who looked like they were entering a Charlie Daniels lookalike contest. Scruffy beards, big hats and really loud. I thought, “Oh my God. I guess this is the price we pay for doing country music.”
I was aware of a song called “You’ll Think Of Me,” because it was written by my friend Darrell Brown along with Dennis Matkosky and Ty Lacy. To me, it was a chick song; the demo sounded like Gladys Knight. I pitched it to every woman I was working with, and they all passed. Keith [Urban] was doing what became the Golden Road record and told me he was cutting it. I said, “The one about the cat and the sweater? You can’t cut that. It’s a chick song.” He said, “No, you’re wrong, man. I’m going to prove it to you.” When we got the album, everyone thought the song was incredible, but “too bad it will never be a single. It’s not country enough.” But something unpredicted happened.
Under my predecessor, Capitol did not have a presence at CRS. He didn’t believe in it – didn’t care. I was looking for an opportunity to participate and to show off our wares, particularly Keith, who was performing around the country and killing it everywhere he went. Connie Bradley gave up ASCAP’s CRS show, and I jumped on it. I put Keith up there and told him, “Your mission is really simple. We’re doing great. Radio is playing you, but you’re still on a song-by-song basis, because that’s all you’ve earned. But if you do the kind of show I’ve been seeing you
do on the road, it will close the door on you being an automatic add. You’ll rise to that elite core with Tim McGraw and others whose every single goes straight on the air.” Keith didn’t really understand what I was saying, but he did his thing, and it was incredible.
I had introduced him onstage, so everybody saw me. When the show was over, I was walking back through that ballroom, and every 10 feet, someone would stop to tell me that they also programmed an AC or Hot AC station and intended to play “You’ll
Think Of Me.” I’d take another 10 steps, and the same thing would happen. Because of consolidation, suddenly programmers had three, four or five stations in their market, and this was the result. I came back to my office and had a call from Jim Ryan, AC format captain for then-Clear Channel. He said, “I don’t know you or who Keith Urban is, but my phone just lit up over this song. Tell me what the hell’s going on here.” I just started laughing. I’d wanted this show to make Keith an automatic, but I hadn’t expected this. During another CRS lunch, RJ Curtis was board president and making all the announcements at the podium. I went out with him so I wouldn’t have to do that long walk across the stage to introduce Ryan Shupe & The RubberBand and Jamie O’Neal ... a little too grandiose for that purpose. I’m standing to RJ’s side trying to stay out of the spotlight, but it’s hitting me in the shoulder, and I’m very conscious of it. So, I stepped to my left to get out of the spotlight and fell off the stage, straight down on my head, upside down. I’d fallen five or six feet down into a box full of gear. I had no feeling – no pain. It was as if I was floating in air. Had I suffered an aneurysm? “I think I’m dead. This is what happens when you die.” I was in some kind of purgatory, but I could hear someone talking over a loudspeaker. It was RJ – he had no idea.
Then, [event manager] Scott DeVoss is above me with a flashlight, talking into his backline mic. “Man down! Man down!” He pulls me out. The only people who saw it were in the front row because it was so dark. When I got up, I felt fine; all I could do was laugh. I fell off the fucking stage, and a thousand people didn’t see it! When it was over, I pulled my jacket back, and my shirt was covered in blood. I’d scraped my torso all the way down. The world’s biggest raspberry. We were just getting started with Darius Rucker when I took him to CRS and the Bridge Bar. It was a feeding frenzy. I was hoping people would know and appreciate him, but I didn’t expect that kind of attention. We were being pulled in different directions. I could see him at the bar, and the crowd around him getting bigger and bigger. He was continually reaching in his pocket and throwing tens and twenties up on the bar – he’s buying people drinks. He’s got like $200 on the bar by the time I got back to him. I’m like, “No, no, no! I’ve got a tab! Use my tab!” He looks at me and goes, “Man ... I’m not like the other artists you work with. I’m already rich.” Mike Culotta and I put together a CRS Relay Race. There were 10 teams that had to ride a tricycle, walk with an egg in a spoon, pass pool noodles back and forth and pull someone on a broom. Culotta was great, because he brought in tiki bars and palm trees from remotes he’d done. I told him I’d take care of the material for the relays, but as the day drew closer, I was keenly aware I didn’t have it yet. I would go to CRS in the morning, work my ass off all day, then get caught up in the bar scene at night and get really drunk. I just kept putting it off.
The night before the race, I got pulled into a room by Erv Woolsey to hear an artist. Then, I was in the bar again. Next thing I know, it’s 1am, and I still don’t have tricycles. So, I go to Walmart in Franklin. I grab 10 brooms, 10 noodles, tricycles – I’m pushing all this around the store in a cart, drunk, and everyone is looking at me. There’s so much stuff it won’t fit in my car, so I get a kid from the store to stand outside with it all while I run home and get my wife’s vehicle, which fortunately could hold it all.
For my 13th birthday, my mom bought me two tickets to The Rascals at Cincinnati Gardens. I watched Dino Danelli spin his drumsticks, throw them 20 feet in the air, catch them, and go right back into the song. Holy fucking shit! I didn’t have any desire to play, but I thought, “I’m going to be in this business in some way!” Not long after that, I discovered a record store called Swallens that was the coolest place in the world. I started hanging out there and begging for a job, which they gave me. For two years, it was just
As he prepares to step into retirement at the end of this month, UMG/Nashville Chairman/CEO Mike Dungan – perhaps the industry’s finest storyteller – shares his favorite tales.Plaque Tie: Receiving the CRB President’s Award. Keith On Trucking: With Cindy Mabe and Keith Urban
me and my best friend Glenn Lindahl. We probably sold more music than anyone in Cincinnati. I was 17. Then, we moved to Sight & Sound and built a monster bigger than Swallens. Some of our best customers were Bootsy Collins, Mike Reid, Joe Morgan and Ken Griffey, who always held the hands of his two boys – Craig and Ken Griffey Jr, who were about five and seven at the time. Of course, I had no idea one of them would grow up to be one of the most feared batters to ever step into the box.
I loved all music and had what some described as an old soul. Someone returned a copy of Sinatra At The Sands accompanied by Count Basie saying it was scratched. We put it on the turntable of our in-store sound system. Good god! That record boomed in the store – Sinatra at his finest. From that moment on, I became a massive fan.
Fast forward a couple of years. I’m 19, and my Sinatra obsession makes me the subject of some loving ridicule from a few of my too-cool friends. Sinatra un-retires and is bringing his tour to my hometown. I applied every bit of pressure I could as a part-time record buyer to get tickets – fifth row. Six rows in front of Johnny Bench. Yeah, I was a bit of an oddball in the room with long hair and a healthy beard. There was an empty seat beside me, right
on the aisle. After the opening act, a little old bald guy sits down. “How ya doin?” “Doing good.” “Gonna be a great show, isn’t it?” “I can’t wait.” “Me too.”
Four minutes later, Sinatra jumps onstage – black tie, Nelson Riddle orchestra behind him. Oh my God. Without saying a word, the man and the band go right into it – “Come Fly With Me.” Four songs with barely a pause in between – no talking. When he finally breaks, Sinatra talks about how happy he is be there. Then
Everyone in this town admired and respected Chris Stapleton. When Traveller was completed, Cindy Mabe had a plan to get him CMA Awards votes – mainly by mailing the music to everyone in the city. By the time voting started, everyone had a copy and was saying the record was life changing. Well, it put [CMA Awards Exec. Prod.] Robert Deaton in a spot, because Chris had five nominations but didn’t have a hit on the radio or anywhere else.
Joe Fisher was in A&R for us at the time. He hadn’t signed Stapleton but, like all of us, was falling in love with the music as the demos were coming through. One Saturday, Joe was driving around town with a new friend named Trace Ayala, who was know to us as “Justin Timberlake’s best friend since they were in the third grade together back in Memphis.” Joe’s CD changer flips over to the new Stapleton rough mixes, and Ayala flips out. “Justin would love this! Can I send it to him?” So, Joe calls me from the car, and I said, “Yeah, okay. What’s the worst that can happen?”
Fast forward a bit, Joe’s in his office and gets call from a woman who says, “You don’t know me, but I’m Jessica Biel. I’m Justin Timberlake’s wife, and his birthday is coming up. He’s got everything, so I can’t buy a gift, but I try to give him experiences. Is there any way you can convince Chris Stapleton to fly on our jet to our place in Montana to play at his party?” So, we make the calls. Chris comes to my office and asks if he should do it. I said, “Hell yeah. Why wouldn’t you? Whatever happens in your career, you’ll be able to tell your grandkids you hung out one night with Harrison Ford and probably a bunch of other famous people.” Well, the story goes that
another song. Then he says, “Ladies and gentlemen, we are blessed tonight to have one of the greatest tunesmiths in the world with us in the audience. A man who can take common words in the English language and turn them into magic. Please, everyone, welcome one of the greatest songwriters ever, Mr. Sammy Cahn.” And the guy next to me stands up. The spotlight hits him, he waves, and Sinatra goes on to say, “I don’t know why you’re here in Cincinnati, Sammy, but I’m happy you are, and I love you. I love you so much, I made sure you got a seat right next to Jesus!”
I claim to be the first person in the nation to get airplay on Rick Springfield’s “Jessie’s Girl.” It showed up in the mail one day, no advance warning, and I don’t know anything about the guy. But it’s great. The next day, I’m going to Columbus, OH, so I take it with me, along with all the music I’m supposed to get played. I got two big stations to play it out of the box. Of course, it went on to massive success, and Rick and I became friends.
Later, one of the station GMs came to me because he was on the board of the new zoo, which was really struggling. He said, “It has rained every weekend, and I think we’re going to go under. I need your help. Don’t you have this Rick Springfield guy who’s on General Hospital? Could we do a benefit for the zoo?” We set up “98-cent WNCI day with Rick Springfield” at the zoo with a temporary stage, barriers and security. Rick was not
Stapleton was so great and Timberlake was so infatuated that Timberlake borderline ignored all the other guests.
Back to Robert Deaton’s problem. Can he put an artist with no hits on the show? But can he just ignore someone with five nominations? The only time that has happened was Kacey Musgraves with the ACMs, and I’ll go to my grave carrying a grudge about that. Anyway, Cindy Mabe brings up the idea of asking Justin if he would perform with Chris on the award show, and Stapleton makes the call.
There’s a wrinkle here, because Tim McGraw was dropping a big new record the week of the CMAs, but Eric Church came to us at the last minute wanting to drop a record, too. It was not the way I wanted to do it, but it’s Eric Church. I was trying to honor his wish to get music to his fans. So, we busted our chops to get the record out, which pissed off McGraw and his manager Scott Siman immensely. Scott texted me during the show to rip me for doing them dirty. The night of the show, we are more than $900,000 in the hole on Traveller ... because marketing music is expensive. We didn’t have streaming yet, just iTunes downloads. We agreed internally that if we sold 30,000 units from this performance, we’d be really happy. Well, I’m in the audience watching on my phone in real time, and the numbers are flying. People are buying at an incredible pace. I did the math in my head and, by the time the performance was over, we were in the black. I got home at 3am, drunk, and called Scott Siman to say, “What me, you, Tim and Eric didn’t see coming ... was Chris Stapleton.” That record just fucking blew by everyone. We did 350,000 equivalent units in that week and never looked back.
Charles Kelley just dove into the pool. Luke Bryan started laughing, and he dove in. Ten minutes later, I was grabbed, but I was digging in, because I was wearing really expensive shoes from Barney’s and had my phone in my pocket. I wasn’t going! But Dierks Bentley reached from behind and grabbed me by the balls ... and when somebody grabs you by the balls, you go anywhere they want you to go.
For as long as I have known my wife, the minute she has more than two drinks, she has to have pancakes. After that party, there
going to perform, just take the mic and say a few words. We got there, and I’ve never seen anything like it. It was a Woodstock of 12-year-old girls as far as the eye could see, screaming at the top of their lungs.
Rick hits the stage, starts to talk, and it gets louder and louder with each passing moment. They surge forward, crush the barriers, get by security, push up against the stage and are rocking it. The cops say, “We’re shutting this down.” We run off the stage trying to get to the administration building, and there are 4,000 little kids running after us.
Rick is a few steps ahead of me. At one point, I got stepped on by a cop’s horse. And there’s this little, tiny speedster girl catching up to us from the side. I’ve never
was no place to get pancakes. The days of all-night breakfast at those casinos were long gone. But the manager of the MGM was so happy with all the energy our party had brought to his place that he stepped up and said, “If you want pancakes, pick a place, and I’ll make sure our chefs make you pancakes.” So, at 2am, we all went to Wolfgang Puck’s. We sat at the bar – me in my new MGM robe they gave me after the pool incident – and ate pancakes. My wife was happy.
“Fuck you,” go outside, and make a snowball. Pretty soon, snowballs are flying everywhere down the hall, and the poor people who weren’t involved would come in the next morning to all their papers having blotted out ink from the water.
Grady and I were the last two out of there after one of these famous big time snowball fights – alcohol and all kinds of other bad things were involved. We continued to pound each other with snowballs in the big, empty parking lot. We pretty much finished when I ran outside after Grady, who was getting into his car. I nailed him square in the face ... and I hurt him. I hurt him, and he was pissed. He jumped in his car and started after me. There’s a foot of snow, and I’m trying to run in zigzags, but Grady keeps coming like he was seriously going to kill me. I finally get back to the office, but I’m scared I’m not make going to make it. He’s coming really hard, so at the last minute, I dive into some bushes. When I did, Grady’s Jeep slid into the three steps up to the front door, pretty severely bending the iron railing. When you go by that building to this day, that railing is bent. That was 38 years ago. He would’ve killed me. “Hey, remember when Grady maimed that RCA guy with his car? Those guys were always fun!”
easier, but it wasn’t; it was just nicer. I thought I was going to teach these hillbillies how to do business that would take them to the next level, but they taught me how to accomplish the same thing without being a motherfucker. I had come from the motherfucker side of the business. Four or five days after I got to Nashville, I was driving in, late for a meeting. It was lightly raining, and I was on one of those cellphones mounted on the floor of my Toyota Camry. I turned left on Chet Atkins Drive, and there was a little blue car parked on the side of the road. Just as I’m about to turn left into the alley, this car bolted out in front of me. I jammed on my brakes and started spinning in slow motion – bam, bam, bam. Finally, my car comes to a stop facing backwards on the other side of her. I jump out and am screaming at this young lady. She’s frozen and terrified. I look at my car to see how bad the damage is, but I hadn’t hit her. I must have spun all the way around her car, and the noises I heard were stuff in the trunk or in my head. At this point, other cars are lined up waiting for this raving lunatic to get out of the way. I’m climbing back into my car, embarrassed I’ve made a public spectacle of myself, and the first car in line is a white Lexus LS. The license plate says, “No Show” and – you got it – it’s George Jones. He is laughing his ass off. At that moment I realized, fuck, I live in Nashville.
seen anybody so fast in my life! If she catches Rick, she’s going to slow him down, and we’re all dead. Without even thinking, I elbowed her in the side of the face and knocked her to the muddy ground, saving our lives.
We ended up in lockdown in that admin building with the new zoo director until the police could clear it all up. That zoo director is a guy named Jack Hanna, otherwise known as Jungle Jack Hanna. So, every time I needed a semi-celebrity to do something funny on tape, I called Jack.
John Grady and I were friends before BMG bought our companies. I was the RCA guy, and John was the Arista guy. We were friendly competitors, and that office in Minneapolis was full of troublemakers. There was a lot of funny shit going on; we had the police there a couple of times trying to nail us down. One of the innocent things that would happen when you have a lot of snow outside is snowball fights in the office. You’d be sitting behind your desk and, bam, you’d get hit in the face. You’d go,
We moved to Nashville Thanksgiving weekend of 1990. A couple weeks later, Arista had the Del Beatles performing at their Christmas party at the Ace of Clubs. My wife and I joined the throngs on the dancefloor, and over time, worked our way right up front by the stage. The band finishes a Wilson Pickett song and goes into what sounds like “I’m A Man” by Spencer Davis Group. I’m like, “Holy shit, this guy sounds just like Steve Winwood.” I look up right above me and ... it’s Steve Winwood! Right there at the edge of the stage. That’s what used to happen in Nashville.
Hanging from the ceiling, they had a disco booth over each side of the stage – just cages really – with scantily clad women dancing like they were on Shindig. Then, our hired Santa Claus got into one of them, and I was drunk enough to join them – three of us dancing in a disco booth. People were pointing me out to [label head] Tim DuBois going, “Who is that?” Tim laughs, “Oh, that’s our new head of marketing!” I danced so hard, I triggered an asthma attack and had to literally crawl out of there to find my wife’s purse, hoping my inhaler was in it. One of the most fun nights of my life.
From the outside, my impression of Nashville was it’s where people go to semi-retire. Everyone I knew who worked there played a lot of golf. I thought it would be
Dierks Bentley was the first artist I signed who just took off. We had accomplished that at Arista when Tim DuBois signed Alan Jackson ... then when Tim DuBois signed Brooks & Dunn ... and when Tim DuBois signed Diamond Rio ... BlackHawk. Dierks’ little white tank top – “What Was I Thinkin’” – was a huge hit out of the box.
Keith Urban had his first record out when I got to Capitol, but he hadn’t had anything close to a hit at radio, and the record was not selling well. We got into “I Want To Be Your Everything” and, by hook or by crook, got it to No. 1. We came back with “But For The Grace Of God,” which also went to the top. Then we had the Golden Road record and, boom.
Cindy Thompson was fun – a grind, but we proved to ourselves we could make it happen. I lived through that with Bill Catino – really fighting, scratching and clawing. We got a No. 1 record, went gold off that single, and then she quit. Walked away.
One I wish we’d done better with is Ryan Shupe & The RubberBand, who were phenomenal. I don’t want to say they were ahead of their time, but this environment would’ve been a lot more friendly to them, and they would’ve gotten more shots. Same with The Jenkins – I thought they were the real
Gary Noftz worked for our distribution company in Pittsburgh. He was a very odd guy who carried around a blow-up Frosty The Snowman in a pack on his belt. If he ever saw a famous person, he’d blow it up and take a picture of them holding it. When I went to a cabin he had on an island in the middle of the Allegheny River, he had big books: Frosty & Me volumes one through six full of these pictures. Sandy Kofax, Robert DeNiro – Dolly had it between her boobs. I even talked Clive Davis into taking a picture with it for Gary. Tim DuBois and I were at a BMG convention, and Gary was there, so I was like, “Gary! I need Frosty!” He blew it up and we took the picture. It remains one of my favorite photos.
deal. We got off track when the too-country guys at radio loved this one song and told me I was a fucking fool if I didn’t lead with it. Well, the other 85% of PDs thought it was too country. So, we ruined it.
In our first real meeting after Cindy Mabe joined the company I said, “Okay, we have one issue that we should think about dealing with: Dierks Bentley.” He’d come on so hard, winning all the New Artist awards, there was a real concern he wouldn’t even be nominated in the next cycle. I’m not sure if he deserved to win, but I knew it would crush him if he wasn’t even nominated. Cindy said, “Well, I’ve had this idea I’ve always wanted to do and worked on for years at RCA, but Joe Galante would never let me do it.” I said, “Stop right there. Whatever it is, do it.” She built the Nashville Pub Crawl with a concert on Demonbreun and Dierks as the headliner. And he got the nomination. That was the first of many flashes of brilliance Cindy had with us.
When we were launching Eric Church, we had several singles that never quite got traction. We were selling music, and he was selling tickets, but he was so bombastically different from everybody else that he was held outside of the mainstream by all but a few supporters. We got to the midway point of the second album, and it explodes. He’s playing arenas and winning awards. I wrote a note to these people – I call them the Magic 23 – saying, basically, “A
lot of great things are happening for Eric Church, but they weren’t always. You are one of the people who was there from the beginning, and I’ll never forget it. There were exactly 23 of you, and I know, because I took notes. Those other fuckers can kiss my ass. I’d mow your lawn, but I’m really tired, old, and fat. So, I’m just going to say thank you.” A lot of people framed that and put it up in their office. When I took Alan Jackson out on the road, he kept seeing that and said, “I’m sick of seeing that Eric Church thing. If I knew how much you loved him, I don’t think I would’ve come back with you.”
that song, I was worried we weren’t in the place we needed to be. They were doing the “Fuck you, we’re going to prove it to you” thing. When I heard the finished track, I was like, “Nuh-uh.” Not only that, but their version was also worse than the demo.
I don’t have a good poker face. When I’m happy you see it; when I’m not you see it. They played two more songs that were just okay. Then they played a song they’d just written that I was aware of from a guitarvocal demo: “Need You Now.” I was sitting at the board with all of them behind me. I raised my arms straight up, turned around slowly and went, “Touchdown!” They’re like, “You like that?” I said, “Fuck me! Yeah!” One of those gifts from God, straight out of nowhere.
Lady A’s “Need You Now” would be a defining moment for anyone’s career, and it was for me. Especially because the band was focused on another track. They were cutting four sides and had another one they thought was a smash. I didn’t – not that I have all the answers, but I was scared. This was their second record, and we had accomplished enough on the first to give us the right to come back. Based on
I inherited Trace Adkins , whose career wasn’t in a great shape. There were people advising me to walk away, but I thought he was the most talented and unique vocalist out there. We were butting heads about material. Trace and his producer Dann Huff also didn’t see eye-to-eye, and I sided with Dann more than anything. There was a weird song Dann wanted to cut, but Trace refused. I said, “Look, we owe this to Dann. Let’s cut it. If it’s as horrible as you and I both think it is, it’ll never see the light of I got a call from Dann one night telling me they just couldn’t get the song he liked to work in the studio. He said, “I appreciate you going as far as you did with it. But I added another song into the session that you might know called ‘I’m Trying.’” I got the CD the next day and was listening to the tracks in my car as they were coming up. When I got to “I’m Trying,” I almost wrecked the car. I had to pull over on I-65. I thought it was the best thing Trace ever did, but my promotion staff hated it ... Trace hated it ... his manager hated it. But in my mind, we didn’t have anything even close. I’ve never practiced the pound-down on my artists to make them do things they don’t want to do, but I will wear their
Finally, I convinced Trace to come with it first. Then, I had to say to the promotion staff, “I know you don’t believe in this, but our relationship is new, and you want to prove yourself to me. You have to show one you don’t necessarily believe in. As my boss used to say to me, I don’t pay you to get Hall & Oates records played.” They responded, and goddamn, we went to No. 2. A shame not to go to one, but it was just awesome. Trace still resents it, because he thinks it’s not really him – had a mellotron on it. But to me, it’s what country
Love Don’t Lie Here: With Lady A’s Dave Haywood, Hillary Scott and Charles Kelley.
“ I raised my arms straight up, turned around slowly and went, ‘Touchdown!’ ”
Keith Urban liked it, but he didn’t love it and didn’t want to cut it. I made the same promise I make to everyone when we get in this spot: Let’s cut it. If you hate it, I promise it will not be on your record. I will even pay for the cut and won’t make you recoup it. Fortunately, I had Dann Huff right next to me agreeing it was a smash.
At the time, we had limits on how many compositions an artist could have on an album. If you went to 11 cuts, it was another 9.1 cents in royalty expense per album – controlled comp was a bigger deal back then. I almost always gave in when an artist wanted another track. This one was the opposite. I wanted it, and Keith didn’t.
I was in a car on a promo tour with Jennifer Hanson, who is married to Mark Nesler. He’s also her guitar player on the tour ... and he’s in the back seat. Catino’s driving. Keith calls and says, “Coach, I like the song, but I don’t think I have room for it. I have 10 great cuts already.” I asked if there was room if we went to 11. He hesitated, because he could tell I was trying to trick him. “Because, I will pay out of our pocket to have it on the album. I believe that strongly in it.” He says, “Well, I guess so.”
Really weird experience, because Nesler’s in the backseat listening, though I’m not sure how aware he was. So, I turned around and said, “Based on the fact Keith doesn’t seem to really appreciate the song, if I get it on the album, chances are extremely high it will never be a single. I can force it on the album, based on what you just heard me say to Keith, or I’ll
We ran out four singles on that album – Golden Road – and I was really pushing for “Shirt” as a fifth. Keith had another record on the way and wouldn’t agree, so it was lost. But I told him I wasn’t giving up – we’d put it on a greatest hits and make it a single. When we
down.” I credited Autumn and Dann for staying with it and Keith for keeping his mind open even after it seemed like it was completely closed. That was a glorious moment for me.
Jimmy Harnen and Bill Catino plowed through the first Luke Bryan album with me. We did just enough to earn the right to do a second. Luke cut six sides, was convinced he had his first single, and wanted us to put it out while he finished the album. I listened to all six, and it wasn’t there. I took it to Jimmy ... same reaction. I went back to Luke and [his manager]
Kerri Edwards, and it quickly became very testy with a manager and artist who couldn’t have been happier up to that point. We didn’t talk for three weeks when Kerri called and asked for another meeting off site. They didn’t want to come to my office – that’s how bad it was.
backwards. If it wasn’t a hit four or five years ago, it feels disingenuous. Alright, fine. We put the hits out and didn’t include it. We had a couple minor hits and had scanned 800,000 copies when Keith called.
“Coach, I’ve been thinking, and I’d like you to consider reissuing that greatest hits and putting ‘You Look Good In My Shirt’ on it. I’ll release it as a
Betsy Morley was the longest-tenured person at Capitol when I was there. One year after the holiday break, we exchanged small talk about vacation. She asked, “Do you know what day it is, Mike?” I didn’t. “It’s my 17th anniversary at Capitol.” I had no idea. I told her that was fantastic, and we needed to celebrate. What about lunch? Her favorite restaurant was Cinco de Mayo, so I put it together really quick. I had a coconut head carved into a Pirate’s face that I got at Disney World in my office, and I turned that into a trophy. I put on a goofy hat I got somewhere and bought poppers from the party store. We went to the restaurant to celebrate Cinco De Betso and have done it every year since. It serves two purposes: We drank in the middle of the day, because no one really wanted to come back to work the first week of January, and it reinforced the silly nature I wanted my companies to have.
We went to Jeff Stevens’ writing room, where they played me remixes of the same six sides. I said, “Guys, it’s not the mixes, it’s the songs.” They’re like, “Are you kidding me?” I ask what else they’ve got, and they played me another 10 songs they didn’t think were good enough to make the top six. Nothing. I’m thinking, “Oh my God, his career’s over.” At this point, it’s really quiet and nasty in the room. Everyone’s looking at the ground. I asked one more time, “What else?”
Luke says, “Man, I got nothing. That’s it. I got nothing. I mean, I’ve got some scratch demos I recorded of myself in my laptop, but that’s all.” I said, “Let’s hear it.” We listen to four or five. Nothing there. Then he plays one called “Rain Is A Good Thing.” Everyone’s looking at the floor and I went, “Stop. Stop.” He presses stop, and he’s just mad. He thinks I’m going to make fun of him. I said, “What’s wrong with that?” “You like that?” he asked. “I didn’t say I liked it. I wouldn’t want to make a career out of those songs, but if you put that out now, that’d be a huge boost.” Kerri said, “I kind of like it, too.” We left feeling upbeat – good, but not incredible.
A week later, he gets with Charles Kelley and Dave Haywood to write “Do I.” Holy shit. Unfortunately, it was right behind “Need You Now” on the charts. People were telling me to flip the two so Luke could get to No. 1, but I don’t do that. But it finally got there the last chart of the year. Then we came back with “Rain,” which was another four-week No. 1. Backto-back, that was an incredible 1-2 punch, and from that point on, we never looked back.
When Alan Jackson left Sony, he called and said he wanted to be back with me. “You do, do you?” “Yeah, I think so.” “Do you remember that all we ever did was fight?” He was young and full of shit, and I was young and full of shit. He said, “Yeah, I do, but looking back, you were probably the only person in my life that was always honest with me. And I need that now.” That played on my heartstrings and redefined our relationships from that point forward.
When we hired Van Haze to be one of our Capitol regionals, we put him on the road his very first day with an artist who was a notorious malcontent – a jackass in so many ways. On day two, Van calls into the
Tim DuBois: Mike was the perfect person to bring into that crew of misfits we had at Arista. There wasn’t anybody on the staff doing a job they’d had before, and Mike had as much record company experience as anyone. He was the ideal ornery big brother for that company. He talked to me about starting that He-Man camping trip. It was January and like two degrees. I said, “You’re a fucking idiot for taking all those guys out there, getting them drunk and thinking nothing’s going to happen.”
Every year, I had to do a review of the people who reported to me. Every year, I told him, “Get the fuck out of here and go home before 10pm every night. Quit working so hard; you’re gonna kill yourself.”
office to report that there are problems. So, I called him back – barely knew him at this point – and he tells me about the previous night’s dinner with radio where this artist was trashing the rest of the roster and the label. Van said everything was really uncomfortable. I said, “Okay, come home.” “What? Really? What about the artist?” I’m like, “Get on the first flight and come home. Leave him.” The manager calls later, “What are you doing?” I said, “I don’t have time for that. And I don’t even have time to arrange for him to come home. Fuck him. He can find his own way home.”
There have been a few I’ve been proved wrong on. One was Lady A, who I wanted to release a ballad on as the last single from their first album. They really wanted “Run To You,” and we had a healthy exchange about it. In the end, we decided to come with “Run To You,” and, obviously, they were right. They stuck that up my ass the rest of our time together.
Darius is the greatest dad in the world – goes to everything. He called me from a talent competition at his kids’ school where he’d just heard a band play. I can hear the noise in the room behind him. He goes, “You know that song, ‘Wagon Wheel’?” I did; both my kids danced to it at their weddings. “I’m going to cut it.” I said, “I don’t know, man. It just feels like one of those songs that almost shouldn’t be recut.” He goes, “Fuck you, I’m going to cut it” and hung up. His producer Frank Rogers had the same response. His manager Doc McGhee felt the same way. Ha! Fuck me. I think Darius might have been right.
I loved and appreciated everything about [promo exec] Bill Catino, except for how rough and gruff he was. He could be really intense with people. It made me smile a little bit, because it reminded me of much of my career on the pop side, but it was not healthy for him or for us. I don’t think he had ever worked for anyone that wasn’t jamming him at every turn. I also worried he was going to have a heart attack, and I did not want that intensity to set the tone. Bill had a new contract coming up, so I had the lawyers put in a clause that he’d have to smile three times a day, and I had to see two of them. He comes back like, “What the fuck is this? I’m not signing that.” And I said, “Then you don’t get a new contract.” He goes, “What kind of bullshit is this? This does not look good for me.” I said, “It doesn’t look bad for you. This is just how
My wife and I were having dinner, but she was using my phone to finish our application for a healthcare plan. [Adrian Michaels] was calling and calling, but we’d have to start the application over if the session timed out. When she finished I had five missed calls. When we finally connected, they had a big conference call to tell me about New Faces
Being welcomed into such a great community, there’s some validation to the hard work that my team and I have put in. As an independent artist or aspiring songwriter, you hope to get this badge of honor – being a part of CRS in general, but also on New Faces. Having that support from peers in the industry says a lot about the relationships we’ve built, the friendships we have, and the confidence people have in the music we’re putting out.
As a Hispanic artist in the country music genre,
it means opportunity for not just me and my team, but for the culture and other aspiring Latino artists. CRS New Faces seems like such a small phrase, but the weight it carries is big.
I’ve got to learn how to keep my cool, because I’m a fan before anything else. There were so many incredible artists at CRS, and I have a tendency to walk up to people who I’ve admired or looked up to and ask for a picture. And they’d be like, “Hey, Frank, you’re on this side of the fan booth, remember that.”
Growing up, I spent a lot of time in Texas –Laredo and San Antonio – where my mom is from. Country radio, especially KCYY/San Antonio, was always on. I was always trying to emulate Tim McGraw … people I listened to growing up. I was obviously a huge ’90s country baby.
Even now, I’m just stuck to Country radio. People will say, “Check out this new song,” and I go to try to stream it, and I have to pay the membership, because I’ve just been listening to Country radio the whole time. I have to get all these apps and stuff, –I’m so far behind the curve.
The first time I heard myself on the radio was in El Paso. We were doing a little acoustic performance at KHEY, and Patti Diaz said, “Hey, I wanted to be the first to let you know that we are going to add your song, and you’ll hear it for the first time at the top of the hour.” We were in the bus going to the next stop when it came on. To say I was an emotional wreck is an understatement. There’s video. I was celebrating, then it hit me a ton of bricks and I was sobbing uncontrollably because it was such a full circle moment. I left that town and region to pursue this dream, and then the first time back we had a major song on Country radio. Incredible.
Towards the end of the song, the emergency broadcast system came over with a big ol’ thunderstorm warning. It was so crazy – funny, though. I couldn’t have scripted it any better.
Radio can expect the best body of work I’ve ever created to come out this year. And I mean that with every fiber of my being. This new music is the best representation of me – my personality, storytelling and songwriting in the party mode and energy you would see at a live show. I’m really proud and excited about it.
I was having a burger with my day-to-day [Bridger Simons], and when he told me about New Faces. I thought, “Well, damn, I remember not even being able to get a laminate to attend last year.” It’s a hell of an honor.
The first time I heard my voice come through on a station, I was in a Detroit hotel where they had [WYCD] on. We had just gotten there a little while before and were heading out to dinner. We were walking through the lobby, it came on and we stood there and listened.
When I was 18, I got tired of living by another man’s rules and moved to a shack with no heating or plumbing. There were probably some of the best times of my life. I’m having some good ones now, but the timing there was priceless. I went two years in there – two winters. I’ll tell you ... it was cold, but I did it because I knew I could.
That’s where I started writing a lot of the songs on the record. There’s a mojo about that place, a little makumba, if you will. It was my father’s room on my granddad’s farm – an old tack room for horses that spent 40 years as a party den. There are a couple thousand signatures on the walls. From my uncle down to my brothers and then to me. It’s a cool place to be.
“Fearless” was Luke Dick’s idea. We were two weeks away from going in the studio for the first time. John Sherwood and I walked into Luke’s place. He had start of the chorus, a little drum program and said, “One word … fearless.” It fell out within an hour-and-a-half or so. I’m not huge on the social side. If I don’t like it, it doesn’t go. But, man, there’s pressure to feed the beast. That’s the business side of it. I’m a very much an in-the-flesh kind of person. I played more than 110 shows last year. Whether it’s 100 people or 15,000, you took it to the people, and they saw it in the flesh. That is more the line that I’m interested in.
When I can take time off and the season is right, I’ll go climb a tree stand. I do a little bit of leather work, too. I’m getting ready to make a couple wallets for friends of mine. I like wood burning, too. The first guitar I marked up was an old Martin. I bought it when I was 15, and I actually got two of the tattoos on my chest from that guitar. I’m in the middle of another guitar right now – eight or nine different
spirals across it and there’s going to be a snake slithering through them all. Then I’ll stain it black, so it comes out gray, then red, so it comes out purple and then blue, so it comes out like the blue of a gun. If I do it right, no matter which way the light hits, it will be a different color.
Greenbroke was just the tip of the spear of what we have coming and what I have left to give. I’m going to keep taking it to the people; we’ve been booking shows left and right. We’re going out with Eric Church, Parker McCollum and Blake Shelton this year. A whole case of worms has opened up.
I’m still kind of freaking out about New Faces! This was a big goal, so I was over the moon when I got the call. As a new artist, that support and recognition from radio is such validation, like, “You’re on the right path. We believe in you, and we’re behind it.”
A lot of people don’t know this, but I moved to Nashville nine years ago fresh out of high school – a young girl with dreams of being an artist. I grew up such a big Taylor Swift fan – she was the one that made me feel like I could do it, because she was the young girl at the time popping.
A year into Nashville was a really hard time for me. I had a moment where I thought it might be time to go home, recupe and figure out what I’m doing with my life. I had a conversation with my sister debating what to do. As I was leaving work, Taylor Swift was driving by, and I happened to be wearing a Taylor Swift t-shirt that day. She pulled her car over to the side of the road and said, “Hey, oh my gosh, I love your shirt so much. Thank you.” I was looking at her like a deer in the headlights, but it was everything I needed to keep going. That was seven years ago.
Everyone has their own path. I spent years and years playing at any bar that would have me and counting out dollar bills on my bed to pay rent. In 2020, the world was shut down, but I wasn’t going to use the pandemic execuse so I decided to make as many fans as I could on the internet. Just so happened that it worked.
I wrote “Me Pt. 2” by myself at two in the morning. I’d gone to the bar and, as I was leaving, I passed my ex-boyfriend and his new girlfriend. My heart just sank. Seeing her, I did a double take, like, “Whoa, she looks a lot like me.” I went home that night, sat on the carpet, grabbed my guitar, and wrote, “I hope you’re happy. You found Me Pt. 2.” Probably the most country song I’ve put out.
As long as I can remember I’ve been a Justin Moore fan. Before I turned 21 I went to one of his album launches on Broadway, sneaking into bars he was hopping around to, playing different music at each. Fast forward, I met him at a radio show we both were on in Chattanooga. I told him that story and he was probably weirded out at the beginning, because we hadn’t played the show yet.
Afterwards, he made found me and said, “I am so shocked. I’m such a big fan of you” and said to let him know if there was anything he could to help me. Literally four months later we got the call that he had a song he wanted me to be on. After I listened to “You, Me, And Whiskey,” it was just such an easy yes. Obviously, I’m a fan, but I also kind of feel like I wrote that song. You know what I mean? We’re not singing about champagne. I’ve always been super confident. This industry can make you start feeling like you’re not enough, and I never want to feel like that. That’s what I’m leaving in 2022: self-doubt. Looking forward, everyone can expect a new single at Country radio and a lot of traveling. We just wrapped up my first headlining tour, which is crazy.
My first interactions with music were Garth Brooks, Michael Jackson and Elvis Presley. Then, as I got older, I listened to a lot of rock. Nirvana is probably my favorite band; I went through the emo phase, for sure. As I got older and wrote more songs, friends would say, “Your music has a bit of a country feel.” It’s the weirdest thing. My grandparents listened to a lot of country, so it was around. I connect with the storytelling and the emotion. The main reason I love country so much is because I can be exactly who I am. You can love God, and still drink, and no one’s going to kick you out of the bar.
I moved to Nashville when I was 23, had a Christian record deal on the table and was writing songs for my first album. I didn’t have a clue what I was doing. The deal fell through, but I ended up signing as a writer at Centricity Music Publishing. I wrote songs for other artists with no clue of what I was doing there, either.
I left Nashville and was really in a dark place. I was going through a divorce, as were my parents, so they weren’t available to help me, emotionally. I moved back to my hometown, Paradise, CA, and was helping my brother with a worship band
for his youth group while working ICU and trauma at the hospital in Chico. We lost everything in the 2018 fire. My brother lost his place – their first house. I lost my apartment with everything I’d ever owned. I had to start over from scratch.
A buddy I knew from my first move to Nashville mailed me a guitar. I wrote a song about the fires, “One of These Days,” flew to Nashville, recorded it and put it on DSPs to raise money for a single mom in town. After that, I started writing songs again. My buddies were like, “You should go back [to Nashville].” I ended up on a GoFundMe and moving back, even though I swore I never would. It has made me appreciate everything so much more. The biggest takeaway is I say yes to everything. “Whiskey on You” was inspired by a break-up … I’ve been through a few. Some people listen to my music and their first question is, “Who hurt you?” But we broke up, and I wasn’t super excited about it, to say the least. I went to Jim Catino’s lake house where a lot of songs have been written, and Russell Sutton had this whiskey line. We started working on it from there. We had a demo and took it back to Nashville to record, but it didn’t have the same magic. So, we ended up just mixing the demo. The vocal you heard on the radio was two days after my breakup on a cheap mic in the kitchen of this lake house. That’s about as raw as it gets. Thank you, Country radio for embracing a new artist. I’m so grateful to be here; it doesn’t even feel real, but I’m not the one who spun it 90 times a week and put it in power. I’m not the one who convinced their PD to play it. So, I want everybody to know how thankful I am to them for embracing my song.
I got a call from the label telling me I’d been chosen for New Faces and honestly couldn’t believe it. I had prayed that I had an impact this year, so to be recognized for it was unreal.
I was the youngest of four, so I grew up listening to all different kinds of music … everything from hip hop to outlaw country ... James Taylor, Jim Croce, [Bob] Dylan, [Bob] Seger, Motown, oldies, you name it. My sister listened to nothing but rock. My influences are very eclectic, and you hear them in the music I create. You’ll notice the rhythm and spirit of the music is all over the place.
I spent many years being a less-than-admirable human. I left a lot to be desired, to say the least. So, when I changed my life, it was a complete paradigm shift. I am proud of the man I have become, and my hope is that my story will inspire. My experiences have also taught me about compassion and taking the time to put your foot in the shoe of all sides. Full disclosure: being an artist and a husband and father is one of the hardest balances in life. The best I can do is try to remember family means more than anything. Also, rooting myself in family keeps me grounded with a certain amount of humility.
If I could go back and talk to the me that was incarcerated, I would tell him not to worry – it’s not the end of the world, no matter how it feels in the moment, and that he should follow his heart. I would tell him to be careful and stop looking for acceptance and belonging in any place he can find it.
The only pressure associated with songwriting is the pressure to attempt to make an impact. Music is therapeutic … it’s meant to be there for us when we need it the most. At the end of the day, what’s most important to me is that my music is remembered as honest, edgy, thought-provoking and therapeutic. That being said, my strongest writing style has always been, and will always be, three chords and the truth. And that is the epitome of country music.
My hope is that fans who began their journey with me in rap or rock discover country through my music. I grew up listening to country music, and it has had such an impact on me and a place in my heart, in my household and in my family.
When I stepped out onto the Bridgestone Arena stage as a headliner, the only thing I could think of and the only feeling I had was extreme gratitude. My father took me to that arena when it first opened. I took my daughter there her first time. To be able to headline it and sell it out was one of the most emotional nights of my career.
I’m finishing my debut country album right now, and I can promise my Country radio family that they will be proud of me, and they will be proud of the music and the spirit behind it. I’m most excited that this project was written to be an album. It’s going to have a cohesive feel from track one to track 13. It’s going to tell a story and embody an entire spirit. CAC
Ben Burgess,
P Larry Pareigis 615-332-5511 larry@ninenorthmail.com
EVP/GM Kevin Mason 615-974-1999 kevin@edgehillmusic.com
D/PRM/WC Greg Stevens 214-287-6606 greg@ninenorthmail.com
D/PRM Angel Jennings 864-423-0803 angel@ninenorthmail.com
SVP/PR Stacy Blythe 615-887-9860 stacy@bigloud.com
VP/PR Ali Matkosky 615-300-9656 ali@bigloud.com
N/PR Tyler Waugh 615-870-2040 tyler@bigloud.com
W/PR Dave Kirth 831-915-7617 dave@bigloud.com
MW/PR John D’Amico 12-862-6539 john@bigloud.com
SW/PR Kelley Bradshaw 423-802-4987 kelley@bigloud.com
Rodney Atkins, Lee Brice, Hannah Ellis, Mo Pitney, Dylan Scott, Kelsey Hart, Tim Dugger, Harper Grace
SVP/PR RJ Meacham 615-715-2764 rmeacham@curb.com
ND/PR Mike Rogers 615-406-4132 mrogers@curb.com
RP/MW Samantha DePrez 260-715-1226 sdeprez@curb.com
RP/SW Todd Thomas 530-306-3391 tthomas@curb.com
RP/WC Lori Hartigan 760-929-1019 lhartigan@curb.com
RP/NE Allyson Gelnett 484-888-1181 agelnett@curb.com
CO Brian Day 860-707-9709 bday@curb.com
CEO Shannon Houchins 615-733-9983 shannon@averagejoesent.com
P Forrest Latta 615-733-9983 forrest@averagejoesent.com
SVP/BA Doug Kaye 615-733-9983 doug@averagejoesent.com
SVP/M Andrew Davis 615-733-9983 andrew@averagejoesent.com
SD/BD Nathan Thompson 615-733-9983 nathan@averagejoesent.com
D/CR Bryn Person 615-733-9983 bryn@averagejoesent.com
MG/PU Ryan Bell 615-733-9983 ryan@averagejoesent.com
AC/M Madison Smith 615-733-9983 madison@averagejoesent.com
AC/M McKennan Henninger 615-733-9983 mckennan@averagejoesent.com
CO/A&R Mike Wadsworth 615-733-9983 mike@averagejoesent.com
MG/C Julian Mendoza 615-733-9983 julian@averagejoesent.com
Canaan Smith, RaeLynn
P Dale Connone 212-991-5110 dale@in2unemusic.com
GM Cat Collins 770-682-0318 cat@in2unemusic.com
SE/PR Sarah Headley 704-475-2194 sarah@bigloud.com
NE/PR Nikki Wood 901-378-2346 nikki@bigloud.com
CO/PR Aubrey Wilson 616-610-1084 aubrey@bigloud.com
EA (SB) Eliza Charette 860-614-8800 eliza@bigloud.com
Stephanie Quayle
VP Carli McLaughlin Kane 516-314-6145 carli@bigskymusicgroup.com
D/A&R/AD Christine D’Ancona 619-851-6711 christine@bigskymusicgroup.com
Lucas Hoge
P Laura Lynn 818-429-3655 laura@forgeentgroup.com
DREAMCATCHER ARTISTS
Tenille Arts
VP/PR Jim Dandy 813-422-1947 dandy@dreamcatcherartists.com
D/N/PR Kellie Longsworth 937-232-0574 kellie@dreamcatcherartists.com
MG/R/PR Charlie Dean 612-718-4406 charlie@dreamcatcherartists.com
MG/R/PR Rick Young 818-926-8189 rick@dreamcatcherartists.com
MG/PR Annie Brooks 360-903-1348 annie@dreamcatcherartists.com
Major label and leading independent artists
O/MP/CSO Nancy Tunick 615-403-6121 nancy@grassrootspromotion.com
O/AP/MR/PR Teresa Johnston 615-456-0187 teresa@grassrootspromotion.com
D/PR/MR RJ Jordan 615-335-0718 rj@grassrootspromotion.com
D/Streaming John Griffin 615-268-9876 john@grassrootspromotion.com
M/B Chris Allums 615-300-5321 chrisa@grassrootspromotion.com
P/BMG Jon Loba 615-610-2104 jonloba@bbrmusicgroup.com
EVP JoJamie Hahr 615-610-2126 jojamie@bbrmusicgroup.com
SVP/PR Carson James 615-610-2108 carson@bbrmusicgroup.com
VP/RSGS Renee Leymon
615-610-2118 renee@bbrmusicgroup.com
VP/AR Katie Kerkhover 615-419-8835 katie@bbrmusicgroup.com
SD/AR Chris Poole 864-760-3208 chris.poole@bbrmusicgroup.com
M/SY Ellen Ford 615-974-8698 ellen@bbrmusicgroup.com
EA (Jon Loba) Tyler Tester 616-894-9842 tyler@bbrmusicgroup.com
GM Clay Hunnicutt 615-651-8714 clay.hunnicutt@bmlg.net
SVP/PR/DG Kris Lamb 615-846-7750 kris.lamb@bmlg.net
VP/PR/M Erik Powell 615-324-7774 erik.powell@bmlg.net
RP/NE Brooke Diaz 615-324-6074 brooke.diaz@bmlg.net
RP/SW Tracy Wilkinson 828-244-2827 tracy.wilkinson@bmlg.net
RP/MW Jane Staszak 412-480-4871 jane.staszak@bmlg.net
RP/WC Bill Lubitz 615-846-7752 bill.lubitz@bmlg.net
RP/SE Jay Cruze 423-580-3549 jay.cruze@bmlg.net
CO Sara Barlow 727-515-9892 sara.barlow@bmlg.net
D/AMG Nancy Johnson 615-480-6013 njohnson@grassrootspromotion.com
D/M Heather Stupeck 219-895-2488 heather@grassrootspromotion.com
D/CR Julie Dove 818-231-3901 julie@grassrootspromotion.com
PR/CO/RT Shannon Hall 615-557-8630 shannon@grassrootspromotion.com
MG/PR/NR Ashlee Wall 931-436-4989 ashlee@grassrootspromotion.com
D/PR/CA Tera Lee Flaman 780-977-6789 gps@sakamotoagency.com
P/PR Dan Hagar 615-430-2560 dhpromoman@gmail.com
VP/PR Lee Adams 615-500-2961 ladams@brokenbowrecords.com
VP/PR Shelley Hargis Gaines 615-610-2112 shelley@brokenbowrecords.com
VP/PR, M/SXM Scotty O’Brien
615-610-2124 scotty@brokenbowrecords.com
RP/SW Dawn Ferris 214-924-1020 dawn@brokenbowrecords.com
RP/WC Layna Bunt
CO Ashley Wojcinski
615-473-9010 layna@brokenbowrecords.com
615-610-2134 ashley@bbrmusicgroup.com
P/CEO Jimmy Harnen 615-324-7790 jimmy.harnen@bmlg.net
VP/PR/M Ryan Dokke 360-580-0250 ryan.dokke@bmlg.net
Sr. D/SE Liz Santana 772-473-8116 liz.santana@bmlg.net
Sr. D/WC Stella Prado 818-854-0283 stella.prado@bmlg.net
SVP/AR Brad McFarland 615-944-8700 brad.mach3@gmail.com
Randy Houser
Co-VP/RA/PR Kimmie Trosdahl 615-598-0175 kimmie@magnoliamusicgroup.com
Co-VP/RA/PR Heather Propper 602-317-0551 heather@magnoliamusicgroup.com
Jimmie
Jelly Roll, Frank Ray, Drake Milligan, King Calaway, Track45
VP/PR Adrian Michaels 615-477-0545 adrian@stoneycreekrecords.com
ND, MW Stan Marczewski 615-610-2122 stan@stoneycreekrecords.com
RP/WC Matt Vieira 916-844-7821 mattv@stoneycreekrecords.com
RP/NE Lexi Willson 707-410-6617 lexi@stoneycreekrecords.com
RP/SE Mary Forest Campbell 615-525-7683 maryforest@stoneycreekrecords.com
CO Ashley Wojcinski 615-610-2134 ashley@bbrmusicgroup.com
Chayce Beckham, Kolby Cooper, LoCash, Blanco Brown, Elvie Shane, Madeline Merlo
VP/PR Ken Tucker 615-584-7100 ken.tucker@wheelhousebbrmg.com
ND Jennifer Shaffer 904-386-5050 jennifer@wheelhousebbrmg.com
RP/NE Brittany Pellegrino 248-420-1125 brittanyp@wheelhousebbrmg.com
RP/WC Kendra Whitehead 408-316-2534 kendra@wheelhousebbrmg.com
RP/MW/SE Lisa Mastrianni 415-902-9400 lisa@wheelhousebbrmg.com
CO Ashley Wojcinski 615-610-2134 ashley@bbrmusicgroup.com
Eric Chesser, Johnny Rogers
GM JD Chesser 800-227-7765 bigbigentertainment@gmail.com
PR Russ Ruhnke
RP/MW Clay Hennenan
RP/WC Sarah Burza
RP/NE Jonathan Sharp
Aaron Watson
800-227-7766 bigbigentertainment@gmail.com
800-227-7767 bigbigentertainment@gmail.com
800-227-7768 bigbigentertainment@gmail.com
800-227-7769 bigbigentertainment@gmail.com
EVP/PR Tony Morreale 615-260-6853 tony@biglabel.net
RP/LC Greg McCarn 615-243-1276 greg@roundhouseent.com
TX/PR Tami Millspaugh 214-697-8954 texasrecordchick@gmail.com
RP/NE Andrew Thoen 571-247-1851 andrew.thoen@bmlg.net
RP/SW Andi Brooks 815-621-1155 andi.brooks@bmlg.net
MG/STP Kylie Dembek 615-345-4528 kylie.dembek@bmlg.net
CO TBA
EA (JH) Alannah Watson 615-345-4522 alannah.watson@bmlg.net
Walker Hayes, Tigirlily Gold, Caitlyn Smith, Brandon Ratcliff, Alex Hall, Pillbox Patti GM Katie McCartney 615.995.4614 katie.mccartney@sonymusic.com
VP/PR Luke Jensen 615.743.5222 luke.jensen@sonymusic.com
D/RP Glenn Noblit 214.282.6092 glenn.noblit@sonymusic.com
D/RP Katelyn Lester 443.244.1126 katelyn.lester@sonymusic.com
D/RP Steve Pleshe 559.307.8148 steve.pleshe@sonymusic.com
SC/M/PR Anna Gallenberger 952.820.5706 anna.gallenberger@sonymusic.com
P George Briner 615-324-7782 george.briner@valorymail.com
VP/PR/DG Ashley Sidoti 615-574-7827 ashley.sidoti@valorymail.com
VP/PR Chris Palmer 615-846-7748 chris.palmer@valorymail.com
RP/MW Adam Burnes 615-324-7901 adam.burnes@valorymail.com
RP/WC Amy Staley 615-513-6009 amy.staley@valorymail.com
RP/SE Brooke Nixon 615-651-8709 brooke.nixon@valorymail.com
RP/NE Don Gosselin 615-846-7676 don.gosselin@valorymail.com
CO Laura Moxley 615-846-7749 laura.moxley@valorymail.com
Kelsea Ballerini, Ray Fulcher, MaRynn Taylor, Josiah Siska
EVP Rick Froio 615-780-3070 rfroio@blackriverent.com
SVP/PR Mike Wilson 615-557-8884 mwilson@blackriverent.com
SND Bill Macky 615-202-8135 bmacky@blackriverent.com
RP/WC Dave Dame 714-366-7606 ddame@blackriverent.com
RP/MW Joe Carroll 615-779-8382 jcarroll@blackriverent.com
RP/SE Theresa Ford 615-504-4865 tford@blackriverent.com
RP/NE Bailey White 623-693-3656 bwhite@blackriverent.com
CO Liz Scherff 321-750-4168 lscherff@blackriverent.com
CO/M/PR Ansley Neeley 205.908.6899 ansley.neeley@sonymusic.com
Rayne Johnson
P Mark Liggett 513-515-5879 mark@mountainroadrecords.com
D/PR Dan Pearson 516-993-9446 dan@mountainroadrecords.com
Co-D/PR Charlie Foster 917-968-5729 charlie@mountainroadrecords.com
O Jeff Solima 615-294-4787 jeffsolima@newrevnashville.com
RD Joe Schuld 913-579-9385 joeschuld@newrevnashville.com
RD Joe Putnam 615-491-7688 joeputnam@newrevnashville.com
RD Jon Conlin 818-399-1885 jonconlon@newrewnashville.com
P Chris Allums 615-300-5321 allums@quarterbackrecords.com
For more information about any and all of these services, please contact Robin Rhodes ROBIN@MEDIABASE.COM
Four years ago, Warner Music Nashville Chairman/ CEO John Esposito began discussing his retirement internally, and laid out a succession plan for the company’s leadership. On Jan. 1, EVP/GM Ben Kline EVP/A&R Cris Lacy officially began their tenures as Co-Chairs. Navigating that transition and pointing the label toward the future is an ongoing learning process they are clearly embracing.
What were your reactions?
CL: We had a conversation with each other, because the first thing you want to know is if who you’re putting together want to be together. I remember Ben saying, “I’m ready to do this. I want to do this with you. I’m ready. I’m excited. I feel like we’re going to win.”
BK: But we had to be completely on the same page, or else it doesn’t work. Before we talked to each other, the thought was, “Wow, what an honor.” We didn’t see this coming.
Did you have to set ground rules and division-of-labor? How long did that take?
CL: We’re still doing it.
BK: There is probably an assumption that anything operational somehow falls in my world, and anything creative falls in hers. But she knows more about the day-to-day operations of this company than most people realize. And I try to stay informed in the creative space, because when you’re leading a company, you need to know everything that’s happening. And we both lean in on the things we’ve spent years doing, are particularly good at, and that have helped get us here.
CL: It’s been fun getting Ben’s input because, prior to this, we didn’t have a lot of creative conversations. Our roles were more separate, but it didn’t take my team long. The calendar fl ipped, and my A&R people were immediately emailing everything to Ben. The key is, it’s very open and honest. There’s mutual respect, but we are identifying on a consistent basis the ways we’re different – both to have a better understanding of each other, but also to maximize what we bring to the company. It happens daily when we’re sitting in a meeting or with a coach going over a hypothetical. It’s about being present and recognizing when things we’re working on outside the offi ce are presenting themselves in the offi ce. We are constantly focused on it.
BK: The music business in 2023 and the convergence of technology makes this a huge job with more spokes than ever before. So, it’s incredibly helpful that we’re not solving the same problems at the same time because that’s not efficient. We love each other, but we’re going to disagree and have battles. But I have more respect for Cris Lacy’s knowledge and expertise in the songwriter-artist-song world than anyone else. I’m super comfortable leaning into the things I’m good at, knowing she’s got that.
CL: Same for me, and the thing that shows up is safety. I feel safe, because I have no background in business structure or management. I’ve had some coaching and have managed, but people get degrees in these areas. Ben has managed large groups of people in several different iterations. Mine is smaller groups of creatives. I don’t know how I would do this job if I didn’t know Ben is holding up that end of it. Obviously, I’m learning that stuff, and we trade-off at times, but that’s a really good place to start.
As big a job as running a label is, where is the tipping point between the benefit of splitting the role and the additional effort required in learning to work together and keep each other informed?
CL: I don’t think the effort ever outweighed the benefit, because we’ve been working together at the same company for a long time. It wasn’t bringing two people in who don’t know each other. Espo built a really good company and system that’s already working. We started with a leg up.
BK: We got advice early on to have the first call we make every morning be to each other.
“Here’s what happened overnight or late yesterday. This is what I’m focused on today. Heads up, this is coming our way.” That one little tip has proven to be invaluable. It helps me stop and consider decisions. Nothing is final until Cris and I talk. I’ve changed my mind overnight on certain things in anticipation of that call.
Any other “a-ha” moments or advice you picked up as you worked toward this during those three under-the-radar years?
BK: There were a few corporate or global calls I’d never been invited to before. Like, “Hmm. That’s curious.”
because you could sit there and talk international all night long. I could really see the two
CL: There was a dinner where we were courting an artist, and I remember being so excited because you could sit there and talk international all night long. I could really see the two different styles and how it was additive.
BK: But we weren’t born into these roles. We already had really big jobs. I had been promoted into GM, so frankly was more concerned with the new departments that rolled up to me – getting to know those people and how it all works.
Cris, you mentioned coaching. Is that a regularly scheduled endeavor or something you can tap as needed?
CL: It’s both.
BK: I’ve had an executive coach for a while. As a lifetime learner, it’s something that’s important to me – honest feedback from someone who’s not in
the middle of it or a direct report. Now, we have one we work with on top of that who can ask about a challenge we’re facing together, as opposed to me asking my coach and her asking hers and hearing two different takes. I applaud the company for leaning in with resources.
CL: Also, this is a model that’s worked for them. [Warner Music Group CEO] Max Lousada has put this in place in the UK and Canada. Obviously, [Atlantic co-heads] Julie Greenwald and Craig Kallman are a big success story. And then you’ve got Tom Corson and Aaron Bay-Schuck [heading Warner Bros. Records]. Max was able to say to us, “Here’s some things you should think about,” because he’s seen it over the course of several years with different personality types. Little things like, “You definitely want to be close to each other in the same side of the building.” He’s been incredibly, proactively helpful. When the switch flipped, was it smooth, or did the volume immediately jump to 11?
BK: There’s not been a huge increase in the last two months. A lot of stuff got turned over to us when we were announced last June. It’s been more of a gradual build. As Cris said, I’ve had these departments under my purview for a while, so I’ve tried to spend the time since the announcement learning about the areas I don’t know much about and the people I don’t know as well. We are responsible for a really big P&L and 80 employees. Neither of us take that lightly at any point in any day.
CL: You can look at it one of two ways. Oh, my God, we’re coming in after a pandemic, return to office and flex working. But my view is, if we can handle those kinds of challenges and still get the job done, our mettle has been tested. How do you continue to be the person you want to be through that? That’s kind of exciting. There are also days you think, “Really? Could we go back to the eighties?” But more days than not, it’s like, “Yeah. Damn! We all got through that one. Now we’re good to go.” Last year was focused on making sure it was about Espo and his sendoff. We made a conscious decision to wait and do our company offsite at the beginning of this year, because it felt like we needed to close the chapter properly.
BK: We also did it then so we could focus on our vision for growing this business, developing more superstars and nurturing the superstars we have. That felt invigorating and exciting. And Cris is so right ... the next global pandemic, we’re going to be ready.
What are the aspects of Espo’s leadership you hope to carry through?
CL: His enthusiasm and ability to have fun everywhere is vital. One of the traps of this position is it can get very serious. Even though it’s a serious job, really serious is not really creative. Nobody wants to be in the room with that. There’s a big piece of Espo’s joie de vivre – making it about music and connection – we can learn from.
BK: He also had this incredible ability to glide, no matter how many warships were firing on him. As we’ve made this transition, I’ve gained so much respect for that. A lot of leadership is having a steady hand. That is something I want to emulate for the rest of my professional life.
What is the unique stamp you hope to bring to the company?
BK: Cris and I believe very strongly in disruption, because from it comes real creativity. Labels aren’t necessarily built off disruption, but we want to change that. We want people to speak up,
CL: Right. That was a box of our own making. We have to solve that problem, and we’re actively doing it. The thing I’m most proud about in this town is we are the last of the storyteller genres. Because of that, our umbrella’s even bigger. People want to be here and participate in that. When we talk about international, we focus on Nashville’s songwriter-storyteller. There are countries that consider this folk music because that’s what represents the working person, the culture and customs that have been handed down. At its core, that is country music – the storyteller genre. Obviously, you are focused on this building and your roster, but you’re also now captains of industry. So, how do you think country music is doing overall?
CL: We might be too concerned with what is or is not country. Some people have chips on their shoulder about that when the truth is they’re all doing the same thing – speaking the language of a culture they grew up in and paying homage to people who came before. Whether it’s Americana, Red Dirt or pop country, they’re all just telling a story. Internationally, they don’t know the difference. Maybe we need to get out of our own heads about it.
BK: From 30,000 feet, we’re doing pretty well. Two of the three biggest artists in America, Taylor Swift and Morgan Wallen, previously or currently call our genre home. If you expand into the top 10, you could add Chris Stapleton. We keep hearing about shorter attention spans and more fickle audiences, but our fan base tends to be engaged longer. When it works, it can become as big as anything else in this country. Meanwhile, it’s a challenging time to develop the next batch of superstars. So many things are changing –the way we view DSPs is different than it was four years ago. Radio is still critical, but in different ways. It used to be the launchpad, but now is where the ship breaks off from the first stage on its way out of the solar system. We have the same headwinds as other genres, but I like where we are as a whole.
have crazy ideas and challenge the status quo. That’s not in any way a slight to the past, it’s just something we feel is critical to the next 10 years at Warner Music Nashville.
CL: We are an American music company. Everyone thinks, “Oh, it’s country music, and country music is this small piece.” We are a business of storytellers, which could be anything. I had a conversation with a manager who said, “If you’re going after this particular artist, don’t talk about Country radio.” Why not? It’s a great tool, right? We want to disrupt the idea of what’s cool and what’s not, what’s done in Nashville versus the coastal labels. There’s a myopic view of Nashville labels. We don’t consider ourselves a box, which means we have to bring in artists outside of that. Fifteen years ago, country’s demographic split was ... what?
BK: Seventy-five percent white male. The only demo split was hat versus no-hat.
The continuing development of streaming you mentioned, the rise of TikTok, and Covid lockdown seem to have led to a prodigious, data-fueled signing streak at the majors. Are we overwhelmed with new artists, and are we struggling to find bandwidth for artist development?
CL: In the absence of the tools we normally used to sign artists, we used what we had. Everybody signed too much, and we’ve broken less. As an industry, we have to figure out how to come back to discernment and truly creative marketing plans. TikTok’s not a marketing plan. DSPs are not a marketing plan. They’re tools, but you still need brilliant, creative marketers, whether it’s digital marketing or traditional marketing to build around interesting stories. When you spend a lot of time checking boxes, some of that gets lost. We know we can do all these technical things, but give me a creative way to tell the story. Meanwhile, Warner Music Nashville signed multiple artists with no data analytics – no music in the marketplace. We are in a town that, thankfully, still
“We are identifying ways we’re different to have a better understanding of each other and to maximize what we bring to the company.”
– CRIS LACY
has a great interwoven communication system of managers, publishers, and writers working to develop artists and artistry.
BK: We would be naive not to study the data, because it is so robust. Also, one of my all-time favorite quotes is, “All models are wrong, but some are useful.” Who’s interpreting the data that comes from the models? How are you using it? That’s where we lean in differently and hopefully better than our competitors. Years ago, we were going in a direction on the next Dan + Shay single when “Speechless” raised its hand on streaming ... so we followed that path, which now speaks for itself.
This business has never done a good job of separating consumers from fans. They’re not the same thing. Consumers move very quickly from song to song, artist to artist, moment to moment. Converting them into fans and subsequently superfans who scream through megaphones and grab two people to join them at the next show –that’s what it’s about. When used correctly, data helps inform that conversion.
Is the volume of artists too great to build passion and plans around?
BK: It’s triage.
CL: The volume is insane. But I don’t know if it’s reacting to the data or the fact that you can see it all now. Maybe some of both. Before, somebody had to go to a bar, or the owner had to call and say, “This person is actually selling tickets. You should come see them.” Now, very little of it is bad. Home studios – the ability to film themselves, practice 50 times and tune it up with ProTools – means they get really good in their teens ... or younger. The tech offers opportunity. Almost everything is now in the same place – good. What from this “good” needs to be signed right now on the chance it grows from good to great? People don’t know, so they sign a lot of it and hope one does. Years ago, there was a little bit of good, but most of it was just bad. Anybody could see the difference. Much harder to discern now.
What’s your earliest or favorite memory of CRS?
BK: Years ago, I remember going to the disco party and thinking how cool it is having a community –artists, labels, songwriters, radio – who can not take themselves too seriously and have that kind of fun. I don’t know where else you would ever be able to pull that off. I love that nothing’s off the table at CRS, from the issues discussed to letting our hair down. You always get a sense of people who love what they do and care deeply about this genre.
CL: Two things. I’m not saying this because he’s signed here, but Blake Shelton’s famous New Faces video. Second, as a publisher for 12 years, going to the Bridge Bar and being able to interact and start relationships with artists, producers, radio, managers – one of the few places I could go and get business done in that way. Everybody was invited and, as a
female song plugger, I didn’t get invited to the golf games. But everybody could go to the Bridge Bar.
BK: I think there’s one guy who wishes that were different. From CRS to CMA and ACM, how do you see your roles in carrying forward a legacy of working together for the betterment of the whole industry?
BK: The story of country music is important to continue to tell and update. I’m newly on the CMA board and want to make sure I’m contributing and being part of the solution in a changing world. The CMA is an important trade body now and for the next generation. Show me another genre that pulls off something like CMA Fest , where 80,000 fans come to town, major brands do activations and the whole industry shares stages, backline and more. So unique. We are lucky as hell to have that.
We’re both on the ACM board, and that show has moved from linear TV to online. Navigating that, continuing to wave the flag for the genre and getting artists to understand that value is something we’re committed to being part of.
CL: I feel lucky I got to experience original Fan Fairs – moments where fans saw somebody up close – and
comes from that. And it’s also a hell of a lot more fun.
BK: Wow. Scrap my fucking answer. Mine was off the record.
Ben touched on it earlier, but what’s your view of radio’s shifting seat at the table?
BK: The first year I heard, “In five years, radio will be gone,” was probably 2000. I never believed it. Radio is still a critical piece, and no one does radio better than this genre. I don’t have to get into consolidation and the rest, but we want to adjust with radio. And we’ve done some reshuffling of how we interact to maximize the time our teams spend and the impact radio can have in a way that gives our artists the best chance to succeed. I’m not a doomsayer, and I chuckle every time I hear it. Radio is not going away in five years. It may have been the beginning of the marketing plan for the first 70 years of this business. That’s no longer the case, but, weirdly, radio can be more selective now because of it.
CL: I can add nothing. We agree on that.
What’s your origin story? Is there a spark in your childhood that led you to be here now?
CL: As a kid, I always wanted to be a country music artist – to the point to where I changed my name and made everybody in my hometown call me Dusty Chevelle.
BK: What?
CL: I didn’t tell you that?
BK: No!
CL: Yeah, I probably haven’t said that much. But yes, for three years. I didn’t know Chevelle was a car.
BK: I drove a Chevelle.
the care artists have taken with them. Garth signing for hours. I remember an artist who turned the fans moving air in her booth around to face the people standing in line. Preserving the camaraderie behind the music that we love is probably the most important thing we do.
The reason we knew Chris Stapleton was the next big thing is because every writer in town wanted to tell you he was the best writer they ever wrote with. They were excited to share greatness with each other. That goes back to Harlan Howard sitting at a bar as writers came in to soak up his wisdom. We have a beautifully storied history of collaboration and mentorship – for the good of the craft, for the good of the song, for the good of great. That is the thing that is special about Nashville and country music, and it’s the thing we have to fight like hell to preserve. Anything else is short-term greed.
I feel so strongly that it’s our job to show the world this is actually how it should be done. We know it’s unique. We know some people on the coasts don’t understand. Why is this the way we do it? Actually, why isn’t it the way everybody does it? The only way for it to remain this way is for us to preserve it. Greatness
CL: My dad’s a mechanic and at one point said, “Why don’t you just call yourself Rusty Pontiac?” But, I always knew this was part of my soul. The moment I decided, “Whoops, I should just be in the business side,” was at the Stagecoach Lounge in Nashville. I was singing Wynonna’s “All Of That Love From Here,” stopped in the middle of the song and realized, “Nope, I’m not good enough.” What I’d done in my hometown was not even close to the level I needed to be here. I finished the song, shittily, and that was it. I’ve never told this to anyone.
BK: I played in a band that, for one of our gigs, didn’t even plug me in, if that tells you anything. But I always loved the business side. I worked in a record store starting at age 15. I will never forget a probably 28-year-old woman coming in and asking, “What just came out?” I asked what she liked, she asked for recommendations, and I gave her a few including Robert Cray’s Strong Persuader. The next week, she came back, and that continued on a weekly basis. I just loved turning people on to new music. When WPYX/Albany said they were about to play the first single from U2’s Joshua Tree, I pulled my car over, because I knew I couldn’t be driving – I had to be completely focused on the music. That was what drove me. And that I didn’t want to work in a record store forever. I will never forget the impact of recommending music for that woman ... or the crush I had on her. The power of music and connecting people to it is what I love. CAC
“Radio used to be the launchpad but now is where the ship breaks off from the first stage on its way out of the solar system.”
– BEN KLINE
