EDUCATION

Lawmakers debate whether more guns make college campuses safer

Tia Mitchell

Law enforcement arrived at Florida State University's packed library within three minutes of receiving calls that a man with a gun had opened fire.

But some gun rights advocates think that wasn't soon enough.

The shooting, which left three people injured before police killed the assailant, has become the go-to anecdote for proponents who want to change state law and allow people with concealed weapon permits to bring their guns on college campuses. They argue it's a safety issue for students at FSU and beyond.

"If you're attacked and can defend yourself, then you're safer," said former National Rifle Association President Marion Hammer, who currently lobbies in Florida on behalf of gun owners' rights. "If you are in a gun-free zone and an attacker knows that you can't fight back, then you are extremely vulnerable."

One victim of the FSU shooting, Nathan Scott, joined a group called Students for Concealed Carry at Florida State. Another person who was in the library at the time of the shooting, an Army veteran, said he would have had a clear shot to stop Myron May but did not have his gun because it was illegal, the group announced in a statement days after the attack.

However, there are people who feel just as passionately that allowing guns on college campuses will lead to more, not less, violence.

Student and faculty groups at FSU and beyond have spoken against House Bill 4005, which would repeal the language currently in state law that keeps guns off university grounds.

They are adamant that allowing students age 21 and older to carry firearms to class is not the way to prevent another tragedy.

"At FSU, we have an outstanding police department that arrived on the scene and neutralized the threat in less than two minutes," student body President Stefano Cavallaro said. "I believe we are safe on campus, and in the case of the unfortunate, we have swift and effective police response to secure the student body and others in the area."

Florida is among 20 states that prohibit people with concealed weapon permits from bringing their firearms on university campuses. Seven states allow it: Colorado, Idaho, Kansas, Mississippi, Oregon, Utah, and Wisconsin. The remaining 23 leave the decision up to individual schools.

State Rep. Greg Steube, R-Sarasota, said he was already planning to introduce legislation that allowed guns on university grounds even before the Nov. 20 FSU shooting, but the tragedy emboldened him and other supporters. The Criminal Justice Subcommittee approved HB 4005 along party lines last week, but it has two other committee stops before it would be up for a full floor vote.

If Steube's bill becomes law, it would apply to all public colleges and universities; previous efforts were unsuccessful.

Even if the House approves the bill this year, its companion in the Senate sponsored by Sen. Greg Evers, R-Crestview, has a tougher road.

Senate Republicans are more moderate and less affected by the powerful NRA lobby.

More important, former senator and current FSU President John Thrasher also happens to be one of the highest-profile opponents.

He first spoke against a similar proposal while serving in the Senate in 2011 after a family friend was accidentally shot and killed at an FSU fraternity house. The more recent shooting at FSU happened less than two weeks after Thrasher started the job.

He said his beliefs have not changed even after experiencing tragedy from a different vantage point. "I feel strongly about that, too, still," Thrasher said. "It weighs heavily on my heart."

Thrasher describes himself as a Second Amendment supporter, but he said as FSU president he also must listen to students and his own staff, including FSU Police Chief David Perry.

"He tells me it would create more dangerous situations than it would solve," Thrasher said.

The FSU Student Government association and its faculty union, as well as statewide organizations that represent university students and faculty, oppose the measure to allow guns on campus. The International Association of Campus Law Enforcement Administrators has also taken a position against legislation like the one being debated in Florida.

"There is no credible evidence to suggest that the presence of students carrying concealed weapons would reduce violence on our college campuses," the group said in a statement on its website.

Both St. Johns County Sheriff David Shoar and Jacksonville Sheriff John Rutherford said they don't see anything wrong with allowing firearms on university grounds.

"I understand in areas like courtrooms and places where there's tension and division and angst and all that, no, you can't have that in those situations, and bars and, you know, where alcohol is served, obviously I agree with all that," Rutherford said. "But college campuses and these other no-go zones, I disagree. I want good people carrying guns. Look, I've seen multiple times that people have used guns not only to save their own life but somebody else's life."

Shoar had a similar response.

"I am not a member of the NRA, and I don't get involved in a lot of these discussions," he said. "But the truth is, if someone has a concealed weapons permit and they want to take their gun concealed on a college campus, hey, the bad guys get to carry theirs."

Eric Friday, a Jacksonville attorney who serves as lobbyist for gun rights group Florida Carry, doesn't only cite the FSU shooting when speaking in favor of the bill. He also brings up other incidents across the state, such as the unidentified serial attacker at the University of Florida who he believes may have been deterred if firearms were more prevalent.

"Guns will allow these kids to defend themselves from people like him," Friday said.

Another case Friday cited as an example of a gun being used in self-defense on a college campus is also an example of how, unlike the cut-and-dried circumstances at FSU, it is sometimes difficult to clearly define who is the protagonist and antagonist in situations.

In January 2014, Landrick Hamilton was at Eastern Florida State College in Palm Bay when he was attacked by two brothers in a parking lot. Hamilton made it to his car, where guns can legally be stored on college grounds, and grabbed his firearm. He shot one assailant, but the second attacker took the gun and pistol-whipped Hamilton.

All three men initially claimed self-defense. The brothers said Hamilton attacked them with a pool cue at the start of the fight.

In the end, all three were charged with disorderly conduct. One assailant faced an additional charge of aggravated battery. Hamilton was not penalized for firing his weapon.

Gun rights advocates point out that to obtain a concealed weapons permit, Floridians must submit to background checks, fingerprinting, photo identification and meet the minimum age of 21. Proponents said legal gun owners are by and large responsible people who do not commit the majority of gun crimes.

To prove their point, they often cite the research of FSU criminology professor Gary Kleck whose studies of gun ownership and self-defense have received national attention. Kleck's initial survey, conducted in 1992, concluded that guns were used for self-defense 2.5 million times. Now that crime rates are down considerably, Kleck estimates the number of self-defense gun uses at about 1 million a year.

Still, he said, that surpasses the number of firearm-related homicides, suicides, accidental shooting deaths and even incidents where people were not killed. It proves, Kleck said, that people who carry guns are less likely to get hurt.

"If anything, those estimates are conservative," he said. "They're probably too low."

Kleck's research is controversial and unpopular in some criminology circles.

Harvard University health policy professor David Hemenway has published papers accusing Kleck of using bad methodology to arrive at his conclusions.

"The evidence is incredibly strong that where there's more guns there's more deaths because there's more gun deaths," Hemenway said.

Kleck defends his research and said his detractors are mistaken.

Hemenway said his research shows Kleck represents a small minority. Hemenway directs the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, which periodically polls criminologists and public health officials for its firearm researcher surveys.

A June 2014 report showed merely 8 percent of 122 respondents agreed with Kleck that guns are used in self-defense more than they are used to commit crimes. An overwhelming 73 percent disagreed. A July survey with 140 respondents said only 9 percent agreed that making concealed carry laws less restrictive reduced crime, compared to 62 percent who disagreed.

Times-Union reporter Derek Gilliam contributed to this report.

Tia Mitchell: (850) 933-1321